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At the end of the day I wish Utah did what Nevada does with many of the mines there. They don't gate them, they put a sign in front of the mine that says "DANGER, UNSTABLE MINE. STAY OUT, STAY ALIVE." It doesn't forbid you from going in, but give a stern warning that it is not wise. So it leaves the choice up to the person.
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Pale Death beats equally at the poor man's gate and at the palaces of Kings.
- Horace -
MXDENZ - I don't know anybody who has gone that route with this mine. I agree, I would do the same thing if it was possible to get access to mines by simply contacting the owner and signing a waiver. I would love that system.Pale Death beats equally at the poor man's gate and at the palaces of Kings.
- HoraceComment
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Is this the gate at the top by where the head frame was? Or the one for the haulage level at road level?Underground Baby!Comment
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Kiel - The holden tunnel, just off the road on the main level. The gate up next to the headframe is still locked. Funny thing was the lock was unlocked and sitting on top of the metal box on the gate - not broken and in perfect working order. It was like that for several days because a friend was down there the week after me and it was still like that.Pale Death beats equally at the poor man's gate and at the palaces of Kings.
- HoraceComment
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It is the prospector / miners / explores responsibility to know who’s land your are on. Do your land research before you explore. BLM, County records will give you this info. You will need to know PLSS / MTRS.We do it underground and under water.
Claims Manager, Utah Gold Prospector Club
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I have been pulled out of a gated mine by a sheriff. It was a pretty tense situation. He had also called search and rescue. Again, the gate was unlocked and there was no sign. It took some talking and tap dancing but the Sheriff let us all go with a warning. The SAR guys thought we were all cool and calmed down the sheriff.
The rule of thumb is: when you are caught, the sheriff is right! Don't argue aggressively or anger him. When you are in the backcountry, he is the law! However Utah law states that for it to be trespassing there MUST BE signs posted, or warnings otherwise given. If not, then the owners have not obeyed the law either, and you can argue this in court. I, for one, would do everything I can to never find out if you will get off in court.
That said, I have a friend who trespassed on a man's property to go fishing. There were signs posted. He still got off on a technicality because the signs were not posted correctly according to Utah Law. Not sure how that works in this case, and I have not read that code yet.
In my case the gate was in place, but unlocked. I argued that to really be in force to keep people out, it must be locked. I mentioned Mojave Underground and that we were not just kids goofing off (plus we had just ascended a shaft and had all our climbing gear which greatly added weight to our argument). Two of the SAR guys knew of Mojave and vouched for us.
Here is part of the Law. You should read up on your own and be sure to know it. Brahmabull, this is in regards to private land.
76-6-206 (Effective 07/01/14). Criminal trespass.
(1) As used in this section, "enter" means intrusion of the entire body.
(2) A person is guilty of criminal trespass if, under circumstances not amounting to burglary as defined in Section 76-6-202, 76-6-203, or 76-6-204 or a violation of Section 76-10-2402 regarding commercial obstruction:
(a) the person enters or remains unlawfully on property and:
(i) intends to cause annoyance or injury to any person or damage to any property, including the use of graffiti as defined in Section 76-6-107;
(ii) intends to commit any crime, other than theft or a felony; or
(iii) is reckless as to whether his presence will cause fear for the safety of another;
(b) knowing the person's entry or presence is unlawful, the person enters or remains on property as to which notice against entering is given by:
(i) personal communication to the actor by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner;
(ii) fencing or other enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders; or
(iii) posting of signs reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders; or
(c) the person enters a condominium unit in violation of Subsection 57-8-7(
.
(3) (a) A violation of Subsection (2)(a) or (b) is a class B misdemeanor unless it was committed in a dwelling, in which event it is a class A misdemeanor.
(b) A violation of Subsection (2)(c) is an infraction.
(4) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:
(a) the property was open to the public when the actor entered or remained; and
(b) the actor's conduct did not substantially interfere with the owner's use of the property.
76-6-206.1. Criminal trespass of abandoned or inactive mines -- Penalty.
(1) For purposes of this section:
(a) "Abandoned or inactive mine" means an underground mine which is no longer open for access or no longer under excavation and has been clearly marked as closed or protected from entry.
(b) "Enter" means intrusion of the entire body.
(2) A person is guilty of criminal trespass of an abandoned or inactive mine if, under circumstances not amounting to burglary as defined in Section 76-6-202,76-6-203, or 76-6-204:
(a) the person intentionally enters and remains unlawfully in the underground workings of an abandoned or inactive mine; or
(b) intentionally and without authority removes, destroys, or tampers with any warning sign, covering, fencing, or other method of protection from entry placed on, around, or over any mine shaft, mine portal, or other abandoned or inactive mining excavation property.
(3) A violation of Subsection (2)(a) is a class B misdemeanor.
(4) A violation of Subsection (2)(b) is a class A misdemeanor.
Enacted by Chapter 223, 1997 General SessionComment
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Hawkeye-TP I have some property that if the right people are on that property I will shoot to kill and I will do it legaly . Your property is the same as your home. If you catch someone in your home that is not wanted there is 2 things you have to do is #1 shoot to kill and #2 is make shure that butt hole stays inside your house. Do you ever read American Rifleman they have a section in it that deals with just that. The police say you are justified in protecting your home, family and property. Do not give a inch or you could be dead.Comment
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Trevor - Excellent advice, and great sources.
Sanpet - Land is actually different then a dwelling. You cannot just shoot somebody for being on your land. Utah law requires for you or somebody else to be in imminent danger to use deadly force. If a person wanders on to your land you can't just shoot them. That would never hold up in court. If somebody comes in to your house unwanted, that is completely different. Either way, thanks for the advice.Pale Death beats equally at the poor man's gate and at the palaces of Kings.
- HoraceComment
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The hell I can't. I have done that before. I did not kill the butt hole but I put some OO buck shot in his hind end and into the trunk of his car. That is how the sheriff found him the next day. He was arrested for truspasing .He also had pay for his doctor billComment
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sanpet - Now that's a story I'd love to hear about.
Sounds like the guy was doing something seriously wrong on your property, which put the outcome in your favor.
Hawkeye-TP - Would you be willing to share which mine it was that you were confronted by a Sheriff at? I'm curious to know which one, and wondering if it is one that some of us should steer clear of.Comment
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I believe hawkeye was in the jacob city area. . Lots of patented land up thereUnderground Baby!Comment
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The butt hole was stealing a turkey from our turkey farm. I was only 16 at that time. It was night and I was waiting for him to come back to his car. BTW I was hiden in a ditch. When he came back he had a turkey in each hand. I came out of the ditch and I said to drop the turkeys witch he did. I was about 20 yards from him and as he was jumping in to the car and I let lose with the 16 gage . Some around 3-4 00 hit him in the back side. Then I let lose with the shotgun hiting the trunk of the car. The next day the sheriff and Ephraim City Police found the car at Snow Collage.Comment
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What was a Sheriff doing way up in Jacob City? I've been out there quite a bit and have never seen any law enforcement way back there.
sanpet- That's a great story. I can see why it was legal to shoot. Theft and Trespassing is pretty serious. Never steal a man's turkeys!Comment
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I can tell you what the sheriff was doing way up in Jacob City. He was doing his job. I think that the county sheriff department should be on county roads doing there thing. The highway patrol should stay on the main roads of the state. But what do we have here in Utah? The county sheriff is on the main roads and the freeway looking for drunk driving. Don't get me wrong here drunk driving is one of the worst thing a person can do. But let the highway patrol is in a coffee house drinking coffee. You would be surprised how much crime is going on in the counties of this state. Another thing that is happening on our mountains during the summer cattle and sheep rusling. My wife's 1st cuzz. was the juab county sheriff for about 20 years.and now he is with the state officer in the mountains and this kind of stuff is going on all the time. The forest service each county in the state at least $20,000.00 a summer to patrol the mountains. I have found out that the county sheriff is more likely to let a person go than is the forest service law patrolComment
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