Green Eyed Monster

[MA-Caver]

Hey MA-Caver, off topic, I've seen your name pop up in a lot of forums. Have I met you in person before, at the grotto meetings or somewhere?

Heh, it depends on which forums you're a member of as well as this one. What is your (first) name maybe I'll know it.
Usually off line I go by Ralph.

[mymania]

Ralph Powers? Or a different Ralph?
Jeff here. Usually go by jumar in forums

[MA-Caver]

Ralph Powers? Or a different Ralph?
Jeff here. Usually go by jumar in forums

See PM

Gotta go caving now...

[Derek]

So this Green Eyed Monster cave must be the one that Walts grandson told me about in high school. According to him the mine was referred to as the Buffalo mine. Very interesting. Does anyone have the GPS coordinates to the cave/mine? I'd like to cross reference it to my mine list to see if my maps list a mine name for it.

Derek

[stangrider77]

Buffalo Mine

So this Green Eyed Monster cave must be the one that Walts grandson told me about in high school. According to him the mine was referred to as the Buffalo mine. Very interesting. Does anyone have the GPS coordinates to the cave/mine? I'd like to cross reference it to my mine list to see if my maps list a mine name for it.

Yes Cheever you are right. The Green Eyed Monster is inside of the Buffalo mine, but unfortunately there is now a gate on the mine and access is restricted if allowed at all. Coordinates to the main portal are: Lat: 40.359708 Lon: -112.240377.

I was lucky enough to be able to explore the mine and the GEM pre-gate. There are many extravagant formations hiding inside the natural caverns intercepted by the mine.








Perhaps the BLM can get you a key to the gate if you ask nicely

-Jim

[MA-Caver]

GEM is definitely one of Utah's hidden jewels. It is sad that it got trashed the way that it did but yes, there are spots here and there if you know where to look that have been missed and not quite as abused.
What would be a great project is for a group to go in with spray bottles of purified water (NO BRUSHES on the white helectites ) and just spray off all that black dust... with the green soapstone (looks like Jade) soft wall paper brushes and (again) purified water could restore the natural beauty of that area of the cave as well.
Many of the signatures are (by now) historic being over 25-30 years old but many are just useless graffiti. Care will have to be taken concerning the selection of what can be removed and what stays.
Here in Tennessee there's a cave with signatures dating back to 1864 and 1832 on the walls. The pencil and graphite markings are calcified over ... very neat.
I miss going to GEM and used to visit that quite a bit with beginners to show them the beauty and the damage done. Instilling a conservation message as well as showing them a good time caving.
I for one am glad there's a gate to help protect it. Not to keep everyone out, just those that don't care about being careful while moving through the cave it self.
I have a group of TAG (Tenn, Ala, Georgia) cavers planning a trip to Utah to visit the caves (and mines) and I hope that GEM might be on the list of caves/mines to see. Hopefully it will be a possible option.
But I keep in mind (from experience) it always takes ONE guy to screw it up for the rest of us.

Nice photos by the way... got more??

[mymania]

GEM is definitely one of Utah's hidden jewels. It is sad that it got trashed the way that it did but yes, there are spots here and there if you know where to look that have been missed and not quite as abused.
What would be a great project is for a group to go in with spray bottles of purified water (NO BRUSHES on the white helectites ) and just spray off all that black dust... with the green soapstone (looks like Jade) soft wall paper brushes and (again) purified water could restore the natural beauty of that area of the cave as well.
Many of the signatures are (by now) historic being over 25-30 years old but many are just useless graffiti. Care will have to be taken concerning the selection of what can be removed and what stays.
Here in Tennessee there's a cave with signatures dating back to 1864 and 1832 on the walls. The pencil and graphite markings are calcified over ... very neat.
I miss going to GEM and used to visit that quite a bit with beginners to show them the beauty and the damage done. Instilling a conservation message as well as showing them a good time caving.
I for one am glad there's a gate to help protect it. Not to keep everyone out, just those that don't care about being careful while moving through the cave it self.
I have a group of TAG (Tenn, Ala, Georgia) cavers planning a trip to Utah to visit the caves (and mines) and I hope that GEM might be on the list of caves/mines to see. Hopefully it will be a possible option.
But I keep in mind (from experience) it always takes ONE guy to screw it up for the rest of us.

Nice photos by the way... got more??

Ralph, are you coming with the tag group? Let me know when you'll be out here, maybe we can get together for some caves.

[MA-Caver]

Ralph, are you coming with the tag group? Let me know when you'll be out here, maybe we can get together for some caves.

Oh my hell yes I'm coming with them. For one thing they wouldn't know where many of the caves (that I know) are at and it'd be a lot easier to get permits and keys with me as I'm already well known enough to acquire them without too much fuss. I also know the caves well enough to be an effective guide.
Besides ... I LOVE those caves and am dying to get back into them again.

[heromaker]

hey i was wondering if anyone knows if you can get to green eyed monster and is it still open?

[Mike]

Welcome to the site!

The actual location of the GEM is either in the Buffalo or down near a pavilion just outside the town of Ophir. I know there is a decent cave within the Buffalo, but I'm not sure if its it or not. Either way, access to the GEM is granted by the landowner. Julie Ault would likely be the best person to contact for access if its in the town section. Otherwise, the Buffalo is on BLM property and no longer privately owned. Either the BLM or the Timp Grotto would be the best people to contact there.

[Derek]

hey i was wondering if anyone knows if you can get to green eyed monster and is it still open?

Unfortunately it was gated by the reclamation program and now is inaccessible.

[Mike]

hey i was wondering if anyone knows if you can get to green eyed monster and is it still open?

Unfortunately it was gated by the reclamation program and now is inaccessible.

Which would be against the 1977 Caving Act which specifically states that all registered caves must be accessible to the public. The GEM is registered with the NSS.

[one_bad_rover]

It was assessed by BLM and OGM and determined not to be a natural cave, but a mine with mineral resources, the grotto offered to gate it against Ault wishes, as its still on their patented claims. Last I had heard, they did gate it, and the gate had been cut. The caving groups also claim that they named it the green eyed monster, which is funny, cause it shows up in the 1904 Salt Lake Mining Review as a mine with "strange green rock that is still undefined in value". Its not too much of a stretch for the caving groups though, they also claim that the Glory hole up on Hoyt peak is a cave, even though there is evidence of cut stone and ancient wood workings inside. They also seem to have no problem with trespassing on clearly marked private mining claims with active plans. Not sure what the current status is on this one, it would be interesting to find out.

[rhartill]

Mines in caves or caves in mines? [Chicken or egg?]

I am seeking a copy of the following- anyone have access to this?
Walker, R. T. 1928. Deposition of ore in preexisting limestone caves: American Institute of Mining
Metallurgy Engineering Technology, Publication No. 154.

[MA-Caver]

There still seems to be animosity towards organized caving groups in Utah, which I find disturbing because having been an active member of said group for over 15 years I don't see how we impede folks wanting to visit this or that cave. We do things because there are good reasons behind them, not for our own selfish wants, needs, desires, egos and "just because we can".
Whatever restrictions are imposed on anyone far as caves goes is imposed upon us. We've never been above anything or anyone... that includes the law and those whom we (respectfully) call "non-cavers".

I can tell you this however, as far as the "Glory Hole" on Hoyts Peak... it's a cave, full fledged and completely a cave. I've helped mapped/survey it and have been caving long enough to know the difference between a mine and a cave. It could be that Glory Hole was explored by miners way back when and they done some exploratory cuts here and there (I have never seen any evidence of this... but maybe I don't know where to look) but that particular void in the earth is all cave. It especially does NOT contain any hidden spanish gold either Nor does it contain any mineral of value other than say Calcite. Like I said I helped map the cave and by doing so one sees every single nook and cranny to ensure that it doesn't "go".
The cave also does NOT ... repeat... does NOT by any means connect or align itself with the mine that was bulldozed over some time ago. The strike and dip of the bedding plane has been measured and calculated and the two are hundreds of yards apart.

Far as GEM goes, I'm sorry that it's the focus of a lot of bad controversy. It was/is a spectacular cave even though heavily vandalized and trashed and a beauty all it's own. Problem was I think was the land-owners had the same concerns about people getting hurt that the land-owners of Nutty Putty had. In a mine such as that one... it would've been easy. There were false floors and the walls were not entirely stable.
For seasoned explorers these wouldn't have been a problem. For the everyday idjits out there in our world, especially those who think it's a good idea to get plastered drunk before doing some "cool exploring and maybe come out with some souvieners" ... the hazards were great. Those morons rarely wear helmets anyway. Seasoned mine-explorers, like those found on this group... would know better. So it is those idjits that the land-owners AND the state of Utah BLM/Mine Reclaimation dept. are worried about.
I think it's safe for me to say that the local caving groups share their concerns. Some of us are on SAR teams and know the pains it takes to get someone out from underground.

Just because you meet one or two hard-asses in the caving community does not make hardasses of us all. Cut some of us some slack. We're just like you, wanting to have a good time but wanting to get back home alive and in one piece and wanting to preserve what we explore for our own and future kids.