Should a person be charged for rescue?

[Norman Johnson]

Should a person who is rescued from the wild be charged for that rescue? There are often helicopters involved, hundreds of man-hours, dog teams, fuel costs. A lot of specialized gear is dragged out and toted up a mountain or loaded into vehicles and deployed to areas of difficult terrain. Who pays for all this? Should a person who has foolishly broken rules of common sense be forced to come up with money to cover the expenses?

Luckily for back country campers, back packers, and hikers---the experts and rescue teams say NO. Many of the best rescue teams are made up of volunteers. One such team is RMRU---Riverside Mountain Rescue Unit. These guys---Les Walker and Lee Arnson are two of the more prominent members-- go out in blizzard conditions up into the high country of the San Jacinto Mountains and find lost or injured individuals. They are lowered from helicopters onto rocky cliffs, they back pack in for miles and miles, they know every inch of the whole mountain and about every way a person can become disoriented and lost--and they save them--by the tens and twenties.

I read the Idyllwild Town Crier every week and am constantly amazed at how many people do foolish things in the high country and yet RMRU finds them, saves their a##es, and walks away with a pat on the back and a "see you next time." It seems like about every other week the guys are back on the mountain saving another life. It is very rare a person dies up there---why? RMRU.

So why does RMRU not want people charged for their services? Because then people would not call for help. Wives would wait to tell that their husband is a day overdue. Parents would think that they should give their kid another twenty-four hours before they commit to spending what could be big bucks in a search effort. Time is the most important element in any rescue. Not making that phone call which could save the life of you or a loved one because you may not be able to afford the rescue effort is almost guaranteeing lives will be lost and rescue efforts will be more complicated and expensive.

We are all lucky rescue teams exist. If you have a chance, donate to or volunteer for one near you.

NJ

[Mike]

I don't think SAR should charge for rescue, but I think overall that people with a lost loved one or somebody who knows they are in a bad position wouldn't care about the costs of life. I think that if it ever did come to the point that SAR started charging, there would be insurance for such a thing, covered under health insurance.

But overall, no, I don't think they should charge. Volunteers are more than willing to dedicate time and funding to save the life of another person, even if we don't know them. MU's MMT was going to risk our lives, take time off from work, and pay expenses in order to save a guy in a shaft.

[Therrin]

I went down today and saw my opthalmologist, and he said that I should have called a rescue helicopter in on Saturday night, after getting my eye injury.

He's certain there will be at least some permanent vision loss due to the HUGELY high pressures that my eye got pumped up to by the blood inside, but we won't know till it's all cleared up and I can take some tests in a couple weeks.

I was laying there that night, with no hope of falling asleep; in total anguish, and I was ALMOST ready to text in the arrangements to have a chopper come in... I kept thinking about it, and thinking about it. Didn't know at the time if I had broken facial bones, or if there was other bleeding inside my head.
But I kept thinking it over, and I didn't want to be "a wuss" for calling in a helicopter then come to find out that nothing was horribly wrong with me. I couldn't explain the unspeakably intense pain, but I was worried about what it would cost and that it might not have been dire enough to do so.

Looking back at what it took to get out of there, and the agony, and that I'm looking at the real possibility of having permanent vision damage from waiting through the night.... I wish I'd have just done it.

Strangely enough, just before heading into the area earlier that morning, I spent an hour at the gas station in Gorman, waiting for Rob to show up (he's NEVER on time, anywhere, for any reason). And I ended up talking to a Deputy Sheriff who was there. Come to find out he knew my Dad, and that he and I had both gone through Rescue Diver and Divemaster and knew a lot of the same people.
I told him about the mine exploring and he was *fascinated* by it, to the point of giving me his card and personal cell #, and wanted to go on a trip sometime. He also does Sheriff's Dept. SAR in that area, and had told me to keep his number handy in case we ever had to call in a Rescue in the shortest amount of time. A super nice guy.

Then about 9 hours later I'm injured and contemplating taking him up on the offer. How ironic.

[Norman Johnson]

Fate, dude. You should have called the number. As to the vision loss--it is going to happen at some point whether from injury or old age. About forty or so things will need to be held further and further away to read them. Then at fifty the glasses. First you will buy a $250 pair which will work great until you loose them or break them. Then you start with the $15 reading glasses from the drug store. Over the years, you will by these in a number of different strengths, finally using one for regular wear and another for reading. Then when you want to see something really clear, you will start stacking the glasses over your eyes---one pair atop the other until a Coke bottle bottom is where you end up.

Getting old sucks just as much as getting injured---it is all part of the natural order of things. You are going to recover and think nothing of this post for years to come---but someday---the glasses will be three deep on your face.

NJ

[Therrin]

I've had glaucoma since I was 3, my eyes are already -10 and -14, glasses cost closer to $400, and without them I'm pretty useless. So at this point, losing anything MORE...is really frowned upon. (and frankly kinda terrifying)

And I'm only 27. I'd prefer not to be totally blind by the time I'm 50, so I need to go as far as I can to take extra special care of my vision right NOW.

I'm certain I'll recover, but finding out what kinda visual field I've lost from this is something I'm not looking forward to. Your optic nerve doesn't just "grow back" after it's damaged, and it doesn't matter how young you are.
Right now it's still all fuzzy to look through. I prefer to be realistic and concerned over assuming everything will be peachy just cuz I'm "young".

[Norman Johnson]

I'm rooting for you. Keep us posted so we can follow along. "Young" is a better place to start your recovery than where I'm at. Honestly, I'm only 60, and when I go under ground it only reminds me that I don't have that long before I'm going to be looking up at dirt as it is. My dad lived to be 96 and Mom died at 93. I just want to make 61 at this point. That will be approximately another 26 camping and exploration trips to the deserts and mountains.

NJ

[Mike]

Well wait about 10 years and the medical research for artificial eyes (going on amazingly now) will be complete. I wouldn't mind a pair of the new '16k' eyes they have in development now.

And for the muchly hated moderation...

BACK ON TOPIC!

[ExpUt]

Charges for SAR are not unheard of and as our local governments are struggling more than ever for money I wouldn't be shocked to hear of more, surprised, but not shocked.

Take for example the Wayne County search and rescue in the Hanksville, Utah area. Following the release of the movie '127 Hours' featuring the epic tale of Aron Ralston and Blue John Canyon the Horseshoe Canyon area was getting pounded by unprepared travelers in search of Aron's arm or the pool featured in the movie. The pool was shot in Midway, Utah and nothing similar exists in Southern Utah, but the thrill seekers didn't know that. It got bad enough that Wayne County posted this:



I don't think the individual SAR team members get any compensation but gas and other resources (helicopter, etc) are likely the charges you would get billed for. The logistics are vastly different in a small population but giant spread county like Wayne or Grand versus Salt Lake County in which the average SAR call out is over in under an hour... the Wayne Crews could face 3-4 hours just to get to Blue John and start prepping for a rescue.

[ExpUt]

As to the question, should a person be charged? Obviously some really should, putting a monetary consequence to their bad decision might encourage them to think twice in the future. That said I don't know that it is the standard they want to set? Some are worried that victims could be leery to call, or wait until it is too late or much more difficult?

Take for example the SPOT locating device that also function in sorts as a emergency beacon. When activated the service provider will alert local authorities and they will call out the cavalry. Put that in the hands of a moron and you have some very wasted resources such as this case in the Grand Canyon:

"On the evening of September 23rd, rangers began a search for hikers who repeatedly activated their rented SPOT satellite tracking device. The GEOS Emergency Response Center in Houston reported that someone in the group of four hikers – two men and their two teenaged sons – had pressed the “help” button on their SPOT unit. The coordinates for the signal placed the group in a remote section of the park, most likely on the challenging Royal Arch loop.

Due to darkness and the remoteness of the location, rangers were unable to reach them via helicopter until the following morning. When found, they’d moved about a mile and a half to a water source. They declined rescue, as they’d activated the device due to their lack of water."

Later that same evening, the same SPOT device was again activated, this time using the “911” button. Coordinates placed them less than a quarter mile from the spot where searchers had found them that morning. Once again, nightfall prevented a response by park helicopter, so an Arizona DPS helicopter whose crew utilized night vision goggles was brought in. They found that the members of the group were concerned about possible dehydration because the water they’d found tasted salty, but no actual emergency existed. The helicopter crew declined their request for a night evacuation, but provided them with water before departing.

On the following morning, another SPOT “help” activation came in from the group. This time they were flown out by park helicopter. All four refused medical assessment or treatment. The group’s leader had reportedly hiked once at the Grand Canyon; the other adult had no Grand Canyon and very little backpacking experience. When asked what they would have done without the SPOT device, the leader stated, “We would have never attempted this hike.”

The proverbial crying wolf. Three helicopter flights later and this group was out of the canyon.

[Therrin]

That's sickening! If you think the words "Rescue" and "Free Ride" are synonymous, please just die now and save the rest of us some trouble.

Methinks that after the first "rescue" attempt, their unit should be ignored, and definitely after the 2nd. That's an absolute utter waste and abuse of resources.
TANSTAAFLBAD

[Norman Johnson]

I think it is a little unwise to establish any policy based on the exception. Given enough cases, and the Grand Canyon gets many thousands of visitors, there will be a small few who are outside of why any policy is established.

Just an opinion.

NJ

[Therrin]

I didn't mean making actual policy, but if you've flown a crew out TWICE for bullcrap issues, the very least that should happen is that they're issued a big fat check for expenses after the third time when they basically mention they were almost expecting to use medevac as their ride outta there.

SPOT isn't a taxi service, but if you use it like one, you should be charged accordingly.

[Norman Johnson]

Maybe the real culprit in this case was the person who rented these people the SPOT unit. In fact, maybe there should be an insurance policy with every SPOT unit rented that would pay for stuff like this. Or maybe there is already.

NJ

[Therrin]

So instead of making the people who actually make the bad decisions and abuse the use of the device pay for it, we go after the people who rent them in good faith so that people can be more safe than they'd be without one?
And then charge THEM, the owner, if the person using it abuses the use of it?

Sounds like a great way to punish the wrong people.

Instead, why don't you levee a very hefty fine on the people who misuse it; so that the abuse of it is being punished?

This is like punishing a parent for the way a grown adult acts, and letting the person continue to act however they want and just continuing to blame it on bad parenting. At some point the person has to realize that their OWN decisions have consequences, and that it's not anyone else's responsibility to continually coddle them.

[Norman Johnson]

The value of society is that we as humans can form bonds and relationships where we help each other---even the foolish and idiots---and their offspring---because maybe they learn and, who knows, it could have been me and probably was or will be someday. The "smartest guy in the world" didn't get there because he never made a mistake---he got there because he made more mistakes than everybody else--and learned from them.

NJ