Rescue efforts called off...

[lobster68w]

Well, it wasn't the "rescuers" who got the lost boy scout out of the Hidden Treasure and it wasn't the "rescuers" who got the body out of the Honerine. Given the past incidents, I have to say I didn't have too much faith. After all, the Nutty Putty was another fiasco.

[Mike]

Two people go missing while snowmobiling:

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=14647593

Boy, they just need to outlaw snowmobiling and close off mountain lands because its so dangerous. I just can't believe the NFS allows these lands to exist. Somebody really ought to do something about this...

[Kiel]

More bullshit article on KSL right now. But hey we are famous! Or at least infamous

[acidman1968]

I just love this part of the KSL.com video/article: In Utah alone, 10 people have been killed in abandoned mines since 1983.

Exactly how many people have been killed in AVALANCHES since 1983 here in Utah?

Frackin' RIDICULOUS!!!

Or how many have been killed/injured during that same time period riding ATVs? Skiing - at resorts? Mountain climbing? How about hiking?

Unfortunately, KSL.com has disabled their comments or I'd post that question there...

[acidman1968]

After a little checking, there's a lot of statistics about fatalities caused by avalanches in Utah on this web page: Accident Statistics - Utah Avalance Center







Gee, the snow-covered mountains appear to be FAR more hazardous to people than mines. I guess they should outlaw snowmobiles and backcountry skiers...

[Ossyconno]

I find it just laughable how Government (so called officials) are so full of them selfs that they are the only professional and experts at any and everything.

[Stuart]

I have definitely learned quite a bit from this experience. I think the two most important being that A: We need to get in contact with and start training S&R teams in the west on abandoned mine rescue, and B: If another situation like this occurs I need to drive out ASAP to offer assistance.

[radio2]

I have definitely learned quite a bit from this experience. I think the two most important being that A: We need to get in contact with and start training S&R teams in the west on abandoned mine rescue, and B: If another situation like this occurs I need to drive out ASAP to offer assistance.

What is the phone number one would call to get in touch MU in a case like this? I would like to keep it in my contact list.

[Joanne]

I have definitely learned quite a bit from this experience. I think the two most important being that A: We need to get in contact with and start training S&R teams in the west on abandoned mine rescue, and B: If another situation like this occurs I need to drive out ASAP to offer assistance.

Or possibly train up a mine rescue team, then coordinate with various S&R organizations to provide your services. I'm still not convinced that the average S&R member would be willing to go to some of the places that would be necessary for mine rescue. Plus, you guys have the portable which which would be a vital asset in a rescue like the one in northern Nevada.

The initial issues I can envision are:

- Gaining acceptance and legitimacy by law enforcement and search & rescue organizations
- Affording liability insurance
- Organizing a team that can leave on short notice and be gone for multiple days without jeopardizing their jobs

None of these issues are insurmountable and I feel that lives could be saved.

Joanne

[Mike Schriber]

Sorry, been away for the weekend mine exploring (where else?). This whole incident is just sad. I contacted Stuart on Friday afternoon as soon as I heard about this. We agreed that we would likely be better suited to access the mine and evaluate it's hazards than the rescue team. I called the Pershing County Sheriff's Department and was informed that the victim was deceased. I left my contact info in case the family wanted to retrieve the body. I also contacted the local BLM office and was told the same. thing. Stuart and I talked again and decided we'd wait and see if anyone contacted me. Later that night we found out that the victim was still alive. Unbelievable. Stuart then went into high gear about a rescue/recovery operation and you know the rest.

Ken and I did have that discussion a few weeks ago and I'm going to revise my opinion. After calling 911 and the local team I'd recommend contacting groups like ours and getting us involved from the beginning. It might just save your life. Now, I haven't seen this particular mine and it might be as bad as they say, but in my experience mines like that are very rare.

Mike

[ExpUt]

...The initial issues I can envision are:

- Gaining acceptance and legitimacy by law enforcement and search & rescue organizations
- Affording liability insurance
- Organizing a team that can leave on short notice and be gone for multiple days without jeopardizing their jobs

I think your spot on Joanne, the insurance would likely be one of the harder ones to accomplish. I work with insurance agencies on relatively low risk activities on public lands as required for a BLM recreation permit for example, even then it can be costly and difficult to diffuse all the potential reasons they will issue an insurance policy. Enter a high-risk activity such as a mine search and rescue and it could get difficult. Government affiliated SAR teams get shielded liability, a private entity would likely not? Not sure how that would work out.

[Stuart]

If anyone wants my cell number in case of emergency send me a PM.

I think you have it down Joanne, that is exactly the list we would need to follow and I agree with Kurt about the insurance being the hardest part. I know of a couple private S&R groups that we have worked with in the past that may be able to shed some light on the insurance issue.

If only they would divert a very small percentage of the mine closure funding towards getting an abandoned mine rescue team outfitted and insured it would go a long way towards giving situations like this a different ending.

[Dino]

I couldn't agree more on developing an MU S&R team equipped to handle these kind of events. One of the things, I remember most from underground mine safety is there are teams already organized and supported by MSHA for this purpose. I would recommend checking out the United States Mine Rescue Association website for more info on how to become a member. Maybe one of the topics for discussion in this month's MU meeting could be setting up our own rescue team. I'm going to research the USMRA website in more detail to see how hard it is. One of the interesting things to note is the USMRA holds contests on mine rescues, which may not only be educational and informative but also fun. Imagine how great it would be if people from our own group were recognized amongst the best in the country when it comes to Mine Rescue. I think it would go a long way for the acceptance of underground mine exploration and the Mojave Underground.

[sanpet]

After reading the negative post about the failed mine rescue for Westenscow I would like to make a few remarks. Newmont mine rescue team was one of the teams called in. The Newmont mine rescue is one of the best hard rock rescue teams in the world. They have the very best equipment that can be had anywhere. If they and the Navy team from Fallon,NV. Could not get to him then nobody could. Remember the Crandall mine collapse up Huntington, Canyon 4 or 5 years ago? Well in the rescue effort they got 3 of the rescuers killed. I knew one of them. A year or 2 ago in man got stuck in Nutty Pudy Cave west of Utah Lake and now he is entombed there. That makes 6 miners and 1 caver entombed in Utah in less than 8 years. Remember the Willburg mine fire in 1984 I was on that rescue attempt as the Willbcrg mine mine was right under the Deer Creek mine where I worked. We left 26 men and 1 woman in the mine then it was sealed. 18 months later they were brought out.

[Mike]

Hi Sanpet,
You have to remember, it wasn't search and rescue who saved Joshua Dennis after 5 days in the Hidden Treasure mine in '89, and it wasn't S&R who retrieved Jeremiah Ethrington's body almost a thousand feet down an internal winze from the Honerine Mine in Stockton... it was private individuals with experience in both active and abandoned mines.

While Newmont Mine's S&R team may have a lot of equipment and experience with active mining, I doubt they have any experience with abandoned mine shafts over 100 years old. If certain procedures were followed, the danger of falling rocks can be avoided completely. MU has previously dealt with shafts of this very nature by building multi-level platforms inside the shaft to catch heavy rock and debris before it has a chance to accelerate and hurt anybody, and to allow cables from our winch to pass through and operate without any issues at all.

It can safely be done. Crandall was an active coal mine and Wilburg was a fire - very different from what we are dealing with here. This is just a normal mine shaft with a sloughing collar and a situation that required the assistance from an experienced crew who knows what they are doing.