The Real Winch Report

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  • Mike
    Administrator
    True Mojave
    • Sep 2007
    • 1050

    The Real Winch Report

    Alright Stuart and Crystal keep getting on me to make a trip report of Jeff and Mine's recent activities in Arizona aquiring a massive hoist for shaft exploration. The other 'story' is Crystal's interpretation of how our events went, and can be considered an accurate insight into what she dreams about at night.

    On September 19th, Jeff and I drove down to Phoenix, AZ to acquire a 2300' hoist designed for dropping mine shafts. The hoist was purpose built to do this very thing. It can carry an 8000 lbs payload and has a boom to help get the explorer into the center of a shaft. We started the 12 hour drive down early in the morning, stopping only when Jeff's RockStar energy drinks needed re-stocking and flushing. Our first stop for the night landed us on some beautiful property of Jeff's family down in Hatch, UT. We got our hands sticky picking and eating fresh pine nuts and then spent a few hours cleaning the sap off our hands. The next morning, we took of and drove straight through Phoenix and ended up just north of Apache Junction, where we stopped to visit the GoldField Ghost Town. What an amazing site! While it is a semi-ghost town (tourized), it served very well the purpose of being a near living museum. Gun fights, brothels, saloons, all like the good old days. It saddens me again to see that other states are embracing their mining history while we are throwing ours out the door. That evening, we spend the night in the very fine Holiday Inn in Mesa.

    Bright and early Sunday morning, we drove out to Wayne's place to pick up the winch. When we saw this thing, my first thought was how old and run down it looked, and huge and bulky it was. We knew it was perfect for the job. Wayne already had the hoist set up on a forklift. My iPhone in hand for video, and with Jeff's careful guidance, we led the 1500+ lbs hoist into the back of his Dodge 3500, flexing it's suspension and giving it a bit of a workout. We chatted with Wayne a bit about his experiences all over Utah and Arizona before departing. Driving with such a weight and load made the return trip interesting. Fed by Rockstars and Peach-O's, we made the trip home that same day.

    Jeremiah and a few other MMT are currently working together getting the hoist in proper working condition. We'll be doing extensive testing and training with the rig; and the options it gives us to drop shafts will be amazing. Before anybody gets their hopes up though, the hoist is only planned to be used by MMT members until we feel comfortable inviting others down into the depth of the earth.

    Some Youtube videos of us picking the hoist up:


    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWjbUtVKAos[/youtube][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXP3vQWHcyc[/youtube]
    -Fish
    Mojave Mine Team
    MU Web Administrator

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  • Jeff
    Advanced Explorer
    Mojave Miner
    • Nov 2008
    • 140

    #2
    Thank you Mike for posting the real story. I would like to thank Wayne for his help he is an exceptional person. Also some of the highlights of the trip were traveling through Southern Utah I am reminded of what a beautiful and diverse state we live in Arizona is a beautiful place as well. Our trip to Goldfield was awesome it was cool to see all the mining history there also for some reason Mike had the urge to find out when the cougar hunt started in Arizona so he asked a fireman and a circus lady as they were getting on the elevator they said they knew someone on the seventh floor of the Phoenix Holiday Inn that could help him so off he went to the seventh floor only to come back disappointed, he was lied to it ended up being a costume party instead I guess you can't rely on anyone and will just have to call the Arizona DWR Mike Watching the hygienically incompetent dude at the Carls Jr just across from the Holiday Inn dig through all the bushes at 9 am for no apparent reason whilst we ate our breakfast burritos proved to be quite entertaining aaaannnnddd the freeway cameras busting people for speeding at night was a hoot I have not received any mail from AZ yet so I hope I'm good. I was definitely fueled by Rockstars on the way home that is a loooong drive but we made it.
    Seriously it was a worth while trip for a great cause and I believe it will be a very important piece of equipment in the MU tool Box.
    Jeff
    Mojave Mine Team
    Follow me on Facebook

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    • Joanne
      Moderator
      Mojave Outlaw
      • Jul 2009
      • 490

      #3
      Re: The Real Winch Report

      When you guys said you were picking up a winch I had envisioned something a bit more "portable". How do you plan to get the winch into position so you can use it? I realize this is none of my business, but as a curious bystander I'm a bit curious.

      That said, it looks like it would be an amazing tool for exploring some of the accessible surface shafts like I saw in the Goldfield, NV and Tonopah, NV areas.

      Joanne
      Love to camp? Love to eat? Here's the place! www.camp-cook.com

      View my ghost town & mine exploration photos: http://www.asolidfoundation.com/mines/mine_home.htm

      Comment

      • Mark1955
        Advanced Explorer
        Mojave Outlaw
        • Dec 2008
        • 262

        #4
        Iknow Joanne.... I was thinking of that same thing having spent half my life moving heavy things around! Believe me there are ways to move that winch into just about any place known... just depends on how much money and labor one wants to expend. For practical purposes I would rebuild it so it can be dismantled into smaller sections and hauled right nito a mine and then erected again... That would very definitely require the services of a very qualified mechanical engineer to come up with a safe way to do so. Stage rigging to fly humans has to be certified and while I'm not attempting to throw a monkey wrench into the fire on this the boys might want to look into this aspect as well...

        Mark

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        • Mike
          Administrator
          True Mojave
          • Sep 2007
          • 1050

          #5
          The rig will be secured into the back of a 1-Ton F-350. Believe me, much testing is going into it, and Miah, our engineer, is behind it all.
          -Fish
          Mojave Mine Team
          MU Web Administrator

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          • ExpUt
            Senior Member
            True Mojave
            • Jul 2008
            • 557

            #6
            How cool is that, worm operated winder and all. That is a classic piece of machinery there. Its hard to tell from the pics but I assume that it has some sort of directional hydraulic winch motor? Allowing powered ascent/descent? Possible several speeds? Or proportional to engine speed or orbital valve setting? Kohler motor?

            A truck mount would be near. Allow easy egress to and from the site as well as transportation and anchorage. Air bags could be used in the rear suspension to all but eliminate any 'bounce' that could cause unsafe winching. I see it has a lunette on the front, any thought to just making it a trailer with a heavy duty axle? Add landing jacks to the back corners and it with a truck coupled to the front you could theoretically lift to the maximum of the winch/cable WLL without fear? A heavy duty axle is pennies compared to an enture truck though getting a trailer backed into position at some sights could be a task in itself. Then again if it were just a trailer you could theoretically rig the trailer itself into a precarious situation without the need to get a truck up the trail (for example an old sluffed off road or steep hillside?). Using landing jacks on all corners you could level it off enough for the engine & hydraulics to still operate.

            If it does see a truck mount, I would highly recommend a PTO be equipped to the trucks transmission (or engine) for a secondary hydraulic system. While you can do your best to ensure the reliability of your engine and hydraulic pump, any one failure of that system (though extremely reliable) could put one at the bottom of a deep hole

            What a score for Mojave Underground! Seriously, congrats guys!
            Kurt Williams
            CruiserOutfitters.com
            ExpeditionUtah.com
            MojaveUnderground.com

            Comment

            • Mike
              Administrator
              True Mojave
              • Sep 2007
              • 1050

              #7
              Good thinking Kurt! 37% of what you said flew over my head, but Miah will get on here eventually and collaborate.
              -Fish
              Mojave Mine Team
              MU Web Administrator

              Follow us on Facebook

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              • ExpUt
                Senior Member
                True Mojave
                • Jul 2008
                • 557

                #8
                Forgot to mention, if I can be of any help let me know. Sounds like a MU Winch Work Party might be in order
                Kurt Williams
                CruiserOutfitters.com
                ExpeditionUtah.com
                MojaveUnderground.com

                Comment

                • John
                  Advanced Explorer
                  Mojave Miner
                  • Oct 2008
                  • 125

                  #9
                  At one point I was an elevator installer/adjuster & what I learned doing that is still kicking around in my head somewhere. Plus I'm handy at bending things, drilling holes, turning a wrench & willing to help out too.

                  Comment

                  • Mark1955
                    Advanced Explorer
                    Mojave Outlaw
                    • Dec 2008
                    • 262

                    #10
                    In donno, Leaving it in the back of a truck sure limits where you can go down with it... I've seen so many interresting deep shafts that are located inside of mines I'd like to go down at some point... This would be a perfect way for me to do this since I have a bad shoulder which pretty much pre-empts me from rapelling. I've been so interested on some of them that I've considered building some sort of TV camera on the end of a looooong cable that can be lowered down to see what if anything is down some of them.

                    Mark

                    Comment

                    • UnderUtah
                      Advanced Explorer
                      Mojave Outlaw
                      • Jun 2008
                      • 214

                      #11
                      I suppose it’s my turn to chime-in here. The winch is in my shop up on blocks and is receiving all but a total rebuild. Thanks again to Jeff and Mike for their Rockstar and whiskey fueled foray into the desert southwest to pick this unit up. A description of the unit followed by a status report seems in order, so here we go.

                      The winch drum is driven by a bi-directional hydraulic motor driven by an Onan 20 HP engine. The hydraulic motor drives a chain at a reduction of approximately 2:1 that drives a gear thru a clutch to the drum at a reduction of approximately 15:1. The drum gear can disengage via the clutch allowing free spooling of the cable. The drum is equipped on the opposite side of the drivetrain with a friction band brake auctuated by a large hand lever. The spool assembly also has a chain driven traversing carriage that insures that the cable will wind in level layers across the entire width of the spool.

                      The unit had sat out in the elements and has suffered for it. While the first firing attempt yielded a 2 minute run time, it also exposed the weathering issues. The carburetor bowl seal was rotted and it dribbled fuel all over the motor. The carburetor rebuild kit came in just yesterday. The wiring, while well engineered, is showing signs of degraded insulation, and the fusible link to the hydraulic fluid coolant fan continues to blow fuses. The hydraulics seem to work fine, and the high pressure lines show no appreciable signs of degradation. The framework needs a protective coating of paint as well as many ancillary components. The drive train moves but needs lubrication of all moving parts. The spool has yet to be unwound and the cable has not been inspected for damage and absolute working length.

                      I removed many parts for inspection / cleaning / paint preparation. The winding carriage was removed, dismantled, cleaned, lubricated, and rebuilt. Though it could have used new bearings, I cannot imagine where to look for them. It will function without new bearings, so we will go that direction. Other components are yet to be removed, but my assessment is that all will work well after rebuilding.

                      The frame is in excellent condition, and initial inspection of all welds yields no visible cracks. I am still up in the air in terms of attachment methods between the winch and the truck. I favor a system including heavy duty casters for mobility across hard surfaces allowing non-forklift assisted loading onto the truck. This would be accompanied by a system of attachments (plates and bolts / pins, etc) that would allow quick rigging of the winch to the truck.

                      I am working as fast as I reasonably can on this project to get it up and running safely. More to come as it develops.
                      Miah
                      Mojave Mine Team
                      ____________________________________

                      "...It's the only way... Go in, or go back..."

                      Comment

                      • Troy
                        Advanced Explorer
                        Mojave Cowboy
                        • Mar 2009
                        • 82

                        #12
                        Wow Miah. You are Krafty indeed. I am very excited for the subsequent videos that you guys will be making of your adventures with this winch. Like Mike said, "MMT members for testing first". No complaints from any of us while you guys work out the bugs...."whoops, guess that's what the ball bearings are for!". -J/K. Nice work.
                        Troy E.

                        Comment

                        • ExpUt
                          Senior Member
                          True Mojave
                          • Jul 2008
                          • 557

                          #13
                          Originally posted by UnderUtah
                          ...Though it could have used new bearings, I cannot imagine where to look for them. It will function without new bearings, so we will go that direction. Other components are yet to be removed, but my assessment is that all will work well after rebuilding...
                          Motion Industries my friend. If you have a bearing need, they likely have an answer. Come up with a dimension or part number off the old bearing and they likely have one in stock. They have a well-stock SLC location too! They specialize in all things bearings, hydraulics, etc. http://www.motionindustries.com/

                          I was close on the motor, Onan and Kohler are one in the same these days
                          Kurt Williams
                          CruiserOutfitters.com
                          ExpeditionUtah.com
                          MojaveUnderground.com

                          Comment

                          • Mark1955
                            Advanced Explorer
                            Mojave Outlaw
                            • Dec 2008
                            • 262

                            #14
                            Bearings are the easy part. Aside from Motion Industries there is also McGuire Bearings. Both are in West Valley and both are national companies with many stocking warehouses. I've done gobs of buisness with both companies since living here and either is fine to deal with.

                            Mark

                            Comment

                            • Jeff
                              Advanced Explorer
                              Mojave Miner
                              • Nov 2008
                              • 140

                              #15
                              I don't remember saying anything about whiskey Miah and is it done yet
                              Jeff
                              Mojave Mine Team
                              Follow me on Facebook

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