Campouts

[Mike]

Hey everybody,
We're looking to find where people are interested in camping this winter and fall. Let us know and we'll all discuss our options. Thanks.

[Stuart]

Ophir

Locations...

Ophir canyon
The dunes
In the usual.

-Mojave

[hondadrift]

Ive never been camping in the sand dunes but i love camping in the mountains, forests, by lakes in rivers, all that fun jazz! Im excited to do something in the snow too. Do you guys have any experience in winter open ain camping?

[Mike]

Ive never been camping in the sand dunes but i love camping in the mountains, forests, by lakes in rivers, all that fun jazz! Im excited to do something in the snow too. Do you guys have any experience in winter open ain camping?

We do. Albeit cold as cold can get, we still manage to do everything in the snow. The key is to keep dry. Nothing is more important. Next would be keeping warm. If you can do those two things, your going to do alright. Doing both those things might not be the easiest though. Lets cover some facts taken from a variety of trustworth sources. I apologize in advance for the long post, but it is very good infomation. Information taken from http://www.princeton.edu/~oa/winter/wintcamp.shtml

1. Trip Planning
Planning a trip in the winter means spending a good deal of time researching areas and conditions to determine where, when, and how the trip will work. All of these factors will interact to determine what your daily pace and mileage can be.

Goals for the trip
Route - will you be on a trail of off trail, or a mix
Snow level - shallow or deep
Snow quality - powder, packed, breakable crust, or variable
Trail - breaking trail or on a broken trail
Mode of travel - will you be hiking, snowshoeing, or skiing
Elevation changes - going up may be very slow while coming down may be very fast
Strength and experience of group
Group size


2. Personal Equipment
The essence of staying warm in the winter is having the proper clothing layers and knowing how to use them effectively.

Heat Loss
The body basically acts as a furnace, producing heat through chemical reactions and activity. This heat is lost through conduction, convection, evaporation, radiation, and respiration. As physical activity increases so does heat production and conversely as activity decreases so does heat production. The key to keeping warm is to add insulation to the body.

Insulation
The thermal insulation of clothing is proportional to the thickness of the dead air space enclosed. Dead air is defined as any enclosed unit of air that is small enough that natural convection currents would not arise in it. Such currents have been detected in units as small as 2 millimeters in diameter. The dead air next to the skin is heated up by the body and provides a layer of warmth around the body. The clothing is not what is keeping you warm it is the dead air. This is because the denser a material the faster it can transfer heat through conduction, the density of air is obviously minuscule compared to a piece of a fabric. The "clo" unit was developed to provide a measurement of insulating effectiveness. One clo is roughly equal to the insulating value of an ordinary wool business suit. Each inch of thickness of conventional insulating materials (wool, pile, down) provides a theoretical value of about 4.7 clo or a practical "in use" value of 4.0 clo.

The Layering Principle
The key to providing this dead air space is through having a number of layers of clothing. Each layer provides a certain clo value of dead air space. This allows you to add or shed layers to increase or decrease your accumulated dead air space as the temperature changes and/or as your activity level changes. Remember, your body is the heat source, the clothing layers only serve to trap the heat and slow down your heat loss to the cold environment. If you have too much clothing on, you will overheat and start to sweat. You need to find the proper heat balance between the number and types of layers and your activity level.


Clothing Materials
Some of the different types of materials for winter clothing and insulation are discussed below.

1. Wool - derives its insulating quality from the elastic, three-dimensional wavy crimp in the fiber that traps air between fibers. Depending on the texture and thickness of the fabric, as much as 60-80% of wool cloth can be air. Wool can absorb a fair amount of moisture without imparting a damp feeling because the water "disappears" into the fiber spaces. Even with water in the fabric wool still retains dead air space and will still insulate you. The disadvantage to wool is that it can absorb so much water (maximum absorption can be as much as 1/3 third the garment weight) making wet wool clothing very heavy. Wool releases moisture slowly, with minimum chilling effect. Wool can be woven in very tight weaves that are quite wind resistant. An advantage to wool is that it is relatively inexpensive (if purchased at surplus stores). However, it can be itchy against the skin and some people are allergic to it.

2. Pile or Fleece fabrics - is a synthetic material often made of a plastic (polyester, polyolefin, polypropylene, etc.). This material has a similar insulative capacity as wool. Its advantages are that it holds less water (than wool) and dries more quickly. Pile is manufactured in a variety of different weights (thicknesses) offering different amounts of loft and insulation. This allows for numerous layering possibilities. The disadvantage of pile is that it has very poor wind resistance and hence a wind shell on top is almost always required. Versions of pile are available that have a middle windproof layer.

3. Polypropylene and other Hydrophobic fabrics - polypropylene is a synthetic, plastic fiber which offers dead air space and a fiber which cannot absorb water. The fiber is hydrophobic so it moves the water vapor away from the source (the body). Polypropylene layers are extremely effective worn directly against the skin as a way of keeping the skin from being wet and reducing evaporative heat loss. As the water moves away from the body it will evaporate, but each additional millimeter of distance between your skin and the point of evaporation decreases the amount of body heat lost in the evaporative process. Some fabrics rely on the chemical nature of the fiber to be hydrophobic. Others fabrics use a molecular coating the achieve the same end.

4. Vapor Barrier Systems - another way to stay warm in the winter is through vapor barriers. The body is always losing water through the skin even when we are not active. This loss is known as insensible perspiration and occurs unless the air humidity is 70%. This insensible perspiration goes on at the rate of nearly half a quart every 24 hours. Since it takes 580 calories per gram to turn liquid water into water vapor, heat is continually lost through insensible perspiration as well as through sweat from any activity. A vapor barrier is a clothing item which is impervious to water thereby serving as a barrier to the transportation of water vapor. When worn near the skin it keeps water vapor near the skin. Eventually the humidity level rises to the point where the body senses a high humidity level and shuts off insensible perspiration. This prevents evaporative heat loss and slows dehydration.

Vapor barriers should not be used directly against the skin because any evaporation of moisture directly at the skin surface leads to heat loss. Wearing polypropylene or some other hydrophobic layer between the skin and the vapor barrier allows the moisture to be transported away from direct skin contact. There is no doubt that vapor barrier systems are effective for some people in some conditions. The issues you must consider before using a vapor barrier are activity level, amount you naturally sweat, and "moisture comfort." If you are not active, such as when using a vapor barrier liner at night in a sleeping bag, the system will work well. A vapor barrier sleeping bag liner will typically permit you to sleep comfortably in temperatures 10 - 15 degrees colder than in the bag alone. However, some people find that they are not comfortable with the level of moisture in the bag and fell clammy. If this interferes with sleeping it may be a problem, better to have a better insulated sleeping bag. Vapor barrier liners for sleeping bags also help in another way. In cold conditions, the moisture from your body escapes upward through the bag, when reaching the cold outside of the bag it condenses into liquid or event frost. Over a number of days this moisture level in your bag increases. If you can't dry out the bag it will slowly get heavier and heavier as it holds more water. With a down bag, this moisture can actually soak the feathers and cause the bag to loose significant amounts of loft (dead air space), thereby reducing it's effectiveness.

5. Down - feathers are a very efficient insulator. They provide excellent dead air space for very little weight. The major problem with down (and it can be a major problem) in the winter is that down absorbs water. Once the feathers get wet they tend to clump, and lose dead air space. Using down items in the winter takes special care to prevent them from getting wet. For example, a vapor barrier sleeping bag liner in a down bag will help the bag stay dry. Down is useful in sleeping bags since it tends to conform to the shape of the occupant and prevents convection areas. Down is very compressible, which is an advantage when putting it into your pack but also realize that your body weight compresses the feathers beneath you and you need good insulation (foam pad, etc.) underneath you, more so than with a synthetic bag. Some people are allergic to down. The effectiveness of a down bag is directly related to the quality of the feathers used. Since down is made of individual feathers, sleeping bags are garments must have baffles sewn in to prevent the down from shifting in the bag which would create cold spots.

Note: Cotton is basically useless in winter time. It wicks water, but unlike polypropylene, cotton absorbs this moisture and the water occupies the space previously occupied by dead air. This means a loss in dead air space, high evaporative cooling, and a garment that is almost impossible to dry out.

The Body and Clothing
1. Head - because the head has a very high surface to volume ratio and the head is heavily vascularized, you can lose a great deal of heat (up to 70%) from the head. Therefore, hats are essential in winter camping. The adage - if your toes are cold, put on a hat - is true. A balaclava is particularly effective and versatile. A facemask may be required if there are high wind conditions due to the susceptibility of the face to frostbite.

2. Hands - mittens are warmer that gloves because you don't contend with the curvature problem described above. Also the fingers tend to keep each other warm, rather than being isolated as in gloves. It is useful to have an inner mitten with an outer shell to give you layering capabilities. Also "idiot strings" are important to keep you from losing mittens in the snow. However, gloves are always essential as well in winter because of the need for dexterity in various operations.

3. Feet - finding the right footgear depends a great deal on the activity you are involved in as well as temperature and environment. The two general modes of travel are skiing or snowshoeing (in areas with only a few inches of snow you can hike in just boots).

Insulated Boots- such as Sorels or "Mickey Mouse" boots. These are rubber or leather and rubber boots that use a layer of wool felt to provide dead air space. The Mouse boots can be Army surplus or modern copies (avoid the copies since they are often poorly made). With the true Army boots, the black boots are rated to -20 degrees and the white ones to -40 degrees. The one drawback with Sorels is that the wool felt liner is exposed. Breaking through a frozen stream may soak the liner which will be difficult to dry. They can be used with snowshoes, crampons and skis (with special bindings).
Plastic Mountaineering Boots - plastic shell mountaineering boots use inner boots made with wool felt or a closed cell foam insulation. These can be very warm and easily used with ski bindings, crampons, and snowshoes. Depending on the inner boot, you may need insulated overboots to add enough insulation to keep your feet warm.
Mukluks - one piece moccasins which reach to the knee. They are used with felt liners and wool socks. The Mukluk itself serves as a high gaiter. They are flexible and breathable. They work with snowshoe bindings and can be used on cross-country skis with special bindings (Berwin Bindings) and with hinged crampons (not for technical ice). They are extremely comfortable, but since they are not waterproof they are best used in dry cold winter settings where water and rain are not a problem (e.g. stream crossings, possibility of rain, etc.)
Heavy leather mountaineering boots with an insulated overboot - this can be effective but the system still is not very thermally efficient and may lead to frostbite of the feet (not recommended).

Socks - one of the best systems for keeping feet warm is using multiple layers. Start with a thin polypropylene liner sock next to the skin to wick moisture away followed by 1 - 2 pairs of wool or wool/nylon blend socks. Make sure the outer socks are big enough that they can fit comfortably over the inner layers. If they are too tight, they will constrict circulation and increase the chances of frostbite. Keeping your feet dry is essential to keeping your feet warm you may need to change your socks during the day. Foot powder with aluminum hydroxide can help. High altitude mountaineers will put antiperspirant on their feet for a week before the trip. The active ingredient, aluminum hydroxide will keep your feet from sweating for up to a month. (Some medical research has suggested a link between aluminum and Alzheimer's Disease but small exposure [as of the original writing of this article] does not appear to be a problem).
High Gaiters - are essential for winter activity. They keep snow from getting into your boots and keep your socks and pants legs free from snow.
Insulated Booties - these are booties insulated with a synthetic fill that typically have a foam sole to insulate you from the ground. They are very nice to have to wear in your sleeping bag at night.
Camp Overboots - are shells with an insulated bottom. These can be worn over insulated booties for traipsing around in camp. Also for those middle of the night visits to the woods.

4. Outer Layer - it is essential to have an outer layer that is windproof and at least water resistant. In some cases it may be best to have the garment waterproof. It also needs to be able to be ventilated. There is a big trade off between waterproofness and ability to ventilate. A completely waterproof item will keep the water that is moving through your other layers trapped, adding to weight and causing some heat loss. However, in wet snow conditions, if the garment is not waterproof it can get wet and freeze. Gore-tex and other similar fabrics provide one solution. These fabrics have a thin polymer coating which has pores that are large enough to allow water vapor to pass through but too small to allow water droplets through. Nothing is perfect, however, and although Gore-tex does breathe, it doesn't breath as well as straight cotton/nylon blends. If you opt for a straight wind garment, 65/35 blends of cotton and nylon work well. The other approach is to have a waterproof garment with sufficient ventilation openings to allow water vapor to escape. This provides the ability to work in wet snow without worrying about getting the garment soaked. Part of the basis for making the decision is the area and you are traveling in. If you are in the dry snow of the Rockies you needn't worry so much about waterproofness. If you are in the northeastern mountains where freezing rain is a possibility or very wet snow, you need to be prepared to be wet.
Clothing Techniques
When you first get up in the morning (and at the end of the day in camp), your activity level will be low as will be the temperature. You will need to have many, if not all, of your layers on at this point until breakfast is over and you have started to become active.
When you get ready to be active, you will need to take off layers since you will begin generating heat. A good rule of thumb is to strip down until you feel just cool, not chilled just before activity. Failure to do this will mean overheating, sweating, losing heat and you will have to stop in 10 minutes down the trail anyway to take layers off. Open or closing zippers, rolling sleeves up or down, taking a hat off or putting one on will all help with temperature regulation.
If you stop for more that a few minutes, you will need to put on another layer to keep from getting chilled. Keep a layer close at hand.
Whenever you get covered with snow, either from a fall or from dislodged snow from a tree, it is essential to brush yourself off to keep your clothing free of snow. Failure to do this often results in the snow melting into your clothing and refreezing as ice.
At the end of the day, as activity decreases and temperature drops, you will need to add layers. Once you start to cool down it takes a lot of the body's resources (calories) to heat up again so layer up ASAP before you get chilled. It may be good to put on more that you think you need; it will only get colder. If you are too warm, you can open up layers and ventilate to reach the proper temperature.

Sleeping Bags
Sleeping bags for winter camping should be rated to temperatures below what you will likely experience if you want to be comfortable. If the nighttime temperature can drop to -15o Fahrenheit, then your bag should be rated to -30o Fahrenheit. There are a variety of different fills for sleeping bags: down, Primaloft, Microloft, Qualofill, Polarguard, etc. The bag itself should be a mummy style bag with a hood. It should also have a draft tube along the zipper and a draft collar at the neck. In sleeping bags, you want the bag to snugly conform to your body. If the bag is too big, you will have large spaces for convection currents and you will be cold. In a bag that has too much space, you may need to wear clothing layers to help fill up the space. You can opt for the expedition bag which is rated to -30o Fahrenheit or you can use a three season bag rate rated to 0o Fahrenheit and augment it with a vapor barrier liner (adds 5-10 degrees), a bivy sack (adds 5-10 degrees), and/or an overbag (a summer weight bag that fits over your mummy bag - adds 15 - 20 degrees make sure it is big enough to fit over the mummy without compressing it). Keep in mind that each of these options has advantages and disadvantages in terms of price, weight, and volume taken up in your pack.

Foam Pads
You also need to insulate yourself from the underlying snow. Foam pads (Ensolite) or inflatables (Thermarest) work well. Your insulation should be a least 1/2 " thick (two 3/8 " summer pads work well, or use a Thermarest on top of a 3/8 " foam pad). It best to use full length pads so that all of your body is insulated.

[Crystal]

I'd like to go to a different place in Utah each time. I mean don't get me wrong I do enjoy going to
the regular places like Eureaka and the Sand Dunes but I want to explore more of Utah.
There is soo much here and I'd like to try and see it all. I'm excited for the Oct. 6th trip to
Frisco, that will be fun, maybe we'll even see some ghosts. . .

[grimerslimer]

Ghosts!! Sweet! Now I really want to go!

grimey

[Stuart]

ghosts!

Frisco is known to be very haunted due to its bloody past.
Creepy place!

-Mojave

[Mike]

And slightly creepy is wasn't . Cool place. Nothing scary happened unfortunatly for us.