Nutty Putty Cave re-opening

[TooeleCherokee]

for those that don't know Nutty Putty cave will be re-opening very soon.. check out the details on their site http://www.nuttyputtycave.com/index.html

[ExpUt]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. We as mine explorers need to find a way to follow the footsteps of cave grottos and their ability to gain access to restricted caves (and mines).

[TooeleCherokee]

I think the hard part will be getting the Gubmint to agree that mines are something other than a danger and need to be protected.

[ExpUt]

I think the hard part will be getting the Gubmint to agree that mines are something other than a danger and need to be protected.

Agreed. But remember they often think the same thing of naturally occurring caves and have threatened to close them permanently if not for grotto's stepping up. I would love to know what kind of liability insurance the group is faced with?? Even a non-profit group is required to have a liability insurance to host events on public lands (for example the U4WDA on BLM land). There must be some way they are dodging this by only opening it up to members?

I know we have some grotto members here on Mojave, any of you willing to do some researching within your grotto's. There is obviously a lot of overlap between mine explorers and cave explorers, I can't imagine they wouldn't mind sharing some "trade secrets".

[Michael_Leavitt]

Kurt:

I can entertain any of the questions regarding Nutty Putty Cave. Being new to your Forum I am still getting the feel for your perspective. The quick answer to your question is that with the backing of the National Speleological Society, and a long track record of success with preserving and conserving caves, the Timpanogos Grotto spearheaded, with the help of the Wasatch and SLC grottos, the development and approval of a cave management plan. This plan details how the cave will be used, delineates rules of decorum for cavers, and places responsibilities and liabilities clearly upon the shoulders of the trip leaders and cavers in their groups.

In the case of Nutty Putty Cave, the landowners (SITLA) preferred to close the cave opening and eliminate the liabilities altogether. Their main concerns were liabilities related to injury, entrapment, and even death. The grottos were able to step in, where other entities failed, and implement a plan that allowed the cave to remain open for public access. Without the help and efforts of the grottos, the Nutty Putty Cave would be permanently closed. All time and effort invested has been volunteered on our part to keep the cave access open.

I hope that we can get your Forum members to support our efforts. Access to the cave is easy. You simply fill out the online reservation and access permit forms. All cavers must agree to wear helmets and headlamps and follow a few rules like not relieving yourself while underground. I feel that some of the Mojave Underground members might not like the gate and lock that prevents unrestricted access. I can understand that to a point, but access to the cave is easy for those willing to fill out the online application and agree to follow the rules. Visiting the cave is now a very pleasant and uncrowded experience. Gone is the smell of an overflowing urinal. No longer are there lines of 40-50 people waiting to get through the initial opening.

Please help spread the word that access into the Nutty Putty Cave is easy.

What specific questions would you like answered?

Michael Leavitt
Nutty Putty Cave Access Manager
Orem, Utah
Michael@NuttyPuttyCave.com

https://www.NuttyPuttyCave.com

Michael@TheHomeInspector.com

https://www.TheHomeInspector.com

[ExpUt]

Thanks for updating us on this Micheal.

What kind of insurance does SITLA or the Federal Government require cave organizations to hold? Any specifics there you can share with me?

[Michael_Leavitt]

Kurt: ...This response is a little long winded, but the information is good and may be helpful to you as mine explorers.

Insurance and liability is really what it is all about in this day of lawsuits. Jon Jasper produced “Saving the Nutty Putty Cave” that takes the viewer through a 14 minute online video that covers the history of the cave closure and gating process. The grottos knew that due to the high traffic and lack of safety equipment that a major injury or death was inevitable, so the grottos took action to install registers to get some data upon which to better make decisions and eventually make an offer to SITLA with a management option. There were over 5,000 visits a year, with most groups being poorly trained or equipped. Gating is not the preferred method, but it looked like the only viable option with the Nutty Putty Cave. It took a few extractions to really capture everybody’s attention. The grottos were able to offer structure and stability, but there was no way we could pay the required million dollar insurance policy. SITLA balked at the grotto offers and explored other options that could possibly produce revenue, since this is their main goal with SITLA properties. Due to the high amount of college coeds visiting the cave, UVSC and BYU were the logical choices and a lease agreement was eventually drawn up, but not signed, with BYU.

The death of the 2 couples in the Y Mountain underwater cave tragedy immediately halted any interest BYU had in managing Nutty Putty. The liabilities were just too high. During all of this time the grottos went forth with the development of plans and proposals to manage, or at least help manage the cave. Private funds were accumulated for the gating and all of the steps to the management plan were written up, without any approval or apparent interest from SITLA. This was done proactively so that we would be considered a viable option “IF” BYU and the others fell through. This was done over a long period of time and there are many grotto members to thank for volunteering the thousands of hours invested over the years. I guess the important part is that the grotto was involved all the way along in a proactive manner and not just sitting back waiting for SITLA to turn to us for help.

As grottos, our long term involvement and our proven track record allowed us to reach an agreement to manage the cave with SITLA waiving the insurance requirement. This waiving of the insurance has both good and bad aspects. Many outsiders criticize and think we are lucky to have the requirement waived, yet they are not the ones volunteering to manage that will ultimately be drawn into court when somebody is injured or dies at the cave. This is a conversation that we could really explore, if you are interested, but before I take any flack from members of the Mojave Underground members, please consider that you slept well last night knowing that if there were a death at the Nutty Putty Cave, that it might affect the closure of other caves and mines, but nobody was going to be hauling you into court to defend the cave management plan. I didn’t have that same luxury. Oops, that sounded a bit too much like Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men.

As the volunteer Cave Access Manager I have the responsibility to make sure that the management plan is followed to the letter. This includes acting quickly when there are issues with the surrounding area, the cave, the gating system, the rope and ladder, as well as ensuring that the online reservations system and website that I created are functioning as designed. I also have to coordinate the monthly and quarterly inspections, as well as recruit volunteers for the hands on repairs and clean-up projects. And all of this so that a few thousand visitors can visit a muddy hole in the ground each year... That sounds really ridiculous of me to assume such a volunteer responsibility with absolutely no type of insurance or legal protection to cover me from personal or legal attack. Let’s face it, it would be much easier for a money making entity to take over the cave and make it a major public attraction. I have been told that it is somewhere between $1,000 and $1,400 per month to keep up the million dollar policy for a cave or mine. Divide that per visitor and you can see why that is an impossibility for volunteer groups to pay for the insurance in the management of just one cave.

The lack of liability insurance is also why the NuttyPuttyCave.com website is so strict about visitors to the cave following the rules of the cave. I regularly receive emails of complaint from non-grotto cavers who easily attack me, the grottos, and the cave management team for setting so many rules. These complaints show the ignorance of the general public who easily attack what they don’t care to take the time to investigate and/or understand. Most are the “Why do we have to wear a helmet?” or “How can you #$$%&$#s put a gate on public lands?” type of complaint. Very few offer any real options or steps to either help or modify the management plan. Let’s face it, most would rather just complain and hurl insults rather than dig in and get involved. My hat goes off to all those cave and mine explorers that actually get off their bums and volunteer their time, money, and talents.

Would it be easier if there was no gate and nobody imposing any rules? You betcha, but SITLA is not stupid and they cannot defend themselves in court from grieving parents suing them because their 19 year old daughter followed some reckless boy into a hole in the ground in the name of fun and ending up falling to her death at the bottom of the Big Slide. SITLA knows that they have to show proactive measures were taken to protect the public from a known hazard. Nutty Putty was out of control during the 90’s and early 2000’s with hundreds of visitors waiting to get in late on Friday and Saturday nights. Something had to be done or SITLA was going to back a concrete truck up and fill the hole in the ground and be done with the liability. Their main goal is to make money off the trust lands and they could really care less about any caves located on their properties. Caves are a thorn in their side and they would prefer somebody would come along and lease the mining rights and assume the liability.

It is weird to think that Monday morning I could be told that the mining rights were leased and that the grottos were no longer managing the cave. This is all about money to them. I personally have logged over a 1,000 volunteer hours into the Nutty Putty Cave management since the first of the year, yet all of the work could be shot down the tubes if SITLA receives and accepts an offer for the mining rights. The same was true of Justin Epps before me, who invested time and money only to see the threat of a lawuit once again close the cave in 2006 until a modified plan could be agreed upon. So there is no insurance and no guarantees of long term caving use, yet we, the management team, push forward as though their was some long term security. By the same token, if an approved group goes into the cave later today and experiences a major injury or death, then I would be forced to endure the inquiry of defending our actions and proving that we, as a management team, were upholding our agreed upon responsibilities. It would be a tragedy, yet it still seems so worthwhile to me as I balance that risk with the current benefit that allows all of us to explore the cave.

So I guess the question that Mojave Underground members have to ask themselves is whether or not they have the same dedication to mine preservation. If you do, then proactively get involved with the state and federal agencies long before the mine closures are announced. Develop plans and strategies in ways to work with the agencies, since fighting them head on seems to do little good. I have no idea what you have done so far and I would love to learn more about you and your efforts. What I do know is that you have to be able to show these agencies viable options that can help limit their liability, while at the same time meeting the objectives. And then you have to be able to offer volunteer manpower and funds to help manage the projects you propose. It is naive to sit back and wonder why they can’t just leave everything open and let those that access do so at their own risk. That is just a dreamy concept that lawyers get rich litigating.

P.S. Here is a link to the news stories that I have archived on the NuttyPuttyCave.com website that you might find of interest. They include the “Y Mountain” tragedy, Nutty Putty extractions, and those relating to mine closures that could affect Nutty Putty... Nutty Putty News. If you have more story links that would be appropriate to add, then please send them along.

Michael Leavitt
Nutty Putty Cave Access Manager
Orem, Utah
Michael@NuttyPuttyCave.com

https://www.NuttyPuttyCave.com

Michael@TheHomeInspector.com

https://www.TheHomeInspector.com

[ExpUt]

Micheal, I truly appreciate you being generous with your time and even more so taking the time to defend your situation. Let me say first that really appreciate you willingness to volunteer to take on a position such as this and furthermore open yourself up to complaints from all angles, its lonely at the top and having been involved with similar situations I can appreciate it regardless of the fine details of ideals.

Regarding insurance, thanks again for updating us there. I was honestly not sure whether or not you were required to carry a policy, I think its a relief that you are not forced to as a non-profit. I fully agree that there are many parallels between cave exploration and mine exploration. While I have very little actual caving experience (Nutty Putty would be on of the bigger systems I had explored in a non-tourist environment), I have interest in doing so. I'd be willing to be you will find many within both communities that are interested in the other, its similar, its high adventure and at the end of the day both are threatened by overzealous government actions and public decision often based solely on the tragedies rather than the years and years of safe enthusiasts. Thanks again!