Cave digging

[jasonbx]

In reading through this forum I noticed that you have referenced digging out plugged passages in a couple of caves lately. I have been working on several small caves over the last few months, discovering it becomes an addiction. Nice to find some people interested in such things. We are in process of planning a digging trip to Littlebrush for March 15th for anyone that is interested. It does require a short 40' rappel/ascent inside the cave, anyone that is interested can contact me directly--my info is on the caving websites in several places as well.

Anyone know a good place to pick up buckets or other digging tools for free/cheap? I can't help but think somewhere people are going to be throwing away 3-5 gallon buckets as a byproduct of their business.

--Jason

[Mike]

Hi Jason,
Welcome to Mojave Underground. Ya digging can be addicting. We need to dig some more. Little Brush's unsuccessful dig took a bit out of me motivation wise. With all the time spent in there just to come to an impossible end... The only cave near Little Brush that I'm aware of is Toothbrush. Is that where your digging?

I'd love to come to do some digging. The 15th is a bit to short notice for me since I'm now living in Orem again and wokring here. Otherwise, I'm game for a dig like that.

I havn't been to Candlelight to dig yet. Were putting together a date and plan for that, which we should come up with shortly.

I usually pick up all my digging stuff either at Wal-Mart or Lowes. I know the Oil Field uses a ton of 5 gallon buckets, maybe they've got some.

[jasonbx]

Just poking around and discovered the calendar, looks like my next upcoming trip may conflict with something already planned. It is pretty short notice as well--only reason I could make it work is I had some other plans fall through. Figured I may as well sign up and make my presence known, looks like ya'll get out and have some fun.

Yep, Toothbrush cave is the target. Ideally we break into LittleBrush below where you guys have been stopped this year. I'm not getting my hopes up for that much progress this trip. Glad to hear LittleBrush didn't entirely kill your enthusiasm. Takes a special kind of crazy to enjoy digging...

I'll let you guys know if I am doing anything closer to Orem in the near future--have some things I have been working on down that way. Next couple of weekends are booked, but I will probably be down on a Saturday or two in April.

[Mike]

Heh poke around as much as you wish. Ya, we get out and have fun from time to time. Never enough though. Thanks for signing up. Feel free to introduce yourself under Introductions. Good to have you with us.

[Alan777]

Hi;

My name is Bruce Walton, and I just joined the group...

Years ago when I was in my 20's (I'm 47 now) I did some cave digging in a small cave up Rock Canyon, east of Provo, Utah... named "Mouse Hole" or "Mouse Trap".

If I recall correctly, this small cave was located at the bottom of the canyon, near the bottom of a trail that led up to Spanish Moss Cave -- http://www.caves.org/grotto/timpgrot...hMossRegs.html -- which is a fairly large cave with a locked gate, on the north slope of the canyon, and was next to (on the north side) a small trail that ran parallel (on the north) of the main Rock Canyon trail, and the entrance was right near the base of the cliff.

I was a member of the Timpanogas 'grotto' of the National Speleological Society (N.S.S.) at the time, which was led(?) by Tim Heaton back then. My memory is rather dim, since it was about 15-20 years ago.

I would ropell down the cave, which was a rather narrow ropell, and down to the bottom (about 40 feet), and the dirt at the bottom of the cave was very soft.

I brought up a considerable amount of dirt, and put it mostly in a larger chamber closer to the surface since it was very difficult (working alone) to get all the dirt out to the surface.

I did NOT hit bedrock during the dig, so there may be more potential there. I admit this might be a pipe (as in pipe-tunnel ;o) dream, but who knows !?

If anything, it may simply be a fun outing and a chance to get in some good training in cave-digging.

If you know where the bottom of the trail is that leads up to Spanish Moss cave, then you will probably be able to find the other east-west trail that runs -- near the bottom of the cliff -- parallel to the main Rock Canyon trail.

I had some strange (delusional ;o) feelings that maybe lower down, if more digging were done, the cave would enter a LARGE system... considering that Spanish Moss cave exists on the slope to the north and Red Baron cave is high on the slope on the south side of Rock canyon.

Hopefully, if anyone is interested in pursuing this, make sure you take some rope -- as I did -- to get down to the bottom (and take a friend, since it was probably not wise of me to go down there alone)...

But if you can't find the entrance, maybe get ahold of me and I will try to find time to make a trip with you to locate it. You can contact me at:

alandewalton@yahoo.com

Anyway, I just thought I'd put in my 'two stalactites' worth of info... ;o)

Speleologically yours;
Bruce Walton

[Mike]

Hey welcome to the site.

Thats some interesting information. Always nice to have more cave info for something local. Stu and I will probably take a look into the cave next time we head up there. Thanks for the info!

[Alan777]

Here's some more info I found...

The Salt Lake 'Grotto' of the NSS (National Speleological Society):

http://www.caves.org/grotto/slgrotto/

The Utah Valley chapter of the NSS:

http://www.caves.org/grotto/timpgrotto/

(They -- ie. the Timp 'Grotto' -- would know a lot more about Spanish Moss and Red Baren caves, and would have the keys to both)

Subterraneously your;
Bruce

[Mike]

Those are good links. Great sites. I personally believe there are tons of caves in the surrounding areas to be found. The terrain is just so rugged they are so hard to find.

[Stuart]

Cave Digging!

Welcome Bruce, and Jason! I am interested in doing some cave digging this year! Littlebrush and Toothbrush are going to be a little wet coming up here pretty soon, so we had better put something together fairly quickly if we are to get anymore work done there.
The "mouse" cave up Rock Canyon on the other hand is right in our backyard and would make for some fun weekend digging. I am going up there next week, or maybe even tomorrow to scout around and see what I can see. If anyone else is interested in checking it out let me know. As far as buckets are concerned, I will keep my eyes open.

[caverdaveutah]

Mousehole Cave

No offense to Mousehole Cave, or to Bruce, but that wouldn't be my first choice of prime cave-digging spots.

Mousehole is definitely an interesting little cave, but it is also very tight and awkward. The bottom of the cave ends in soft fill dirt, and digging deeper could certainly expose some very nice new cave passages. The first trouble with digging at Mousehole is that there is no easy place to put the excavated dirt. All the dirt would have to go straight up and out of the cave, up 2 pits, around several corners, and 50 feet of vertical. Moving the dirt efficiently would require at least 6 or 7 people, if not more. The second problem with digging in Mousehole is a tight awkward constriction between the first and second pits. Very few people are going to fit through that constriction, and those who do actually fit might not want to. It was a tight fit for me, 20 years ago, with a 30-inch waistline. There is no way I would fit through now, without hurting myself. Not only is that constriction difficult for people, but dirt-filled buckets aren't going to fit through either, making the digging more complicated. Not impossible, just complicated, and slow and tedious.

While the bottom of Mousehole Cave certainly has digging potential, there are many better and easier places, where I would try digging first. JasonBX and I are both hoping to do some digging this summer, and hard workers are always welcome on such kinds of caving trips.

There are numerous other small cave digs in the Provo area, with potential for finding well decorated but small to moderate-sized caves. There are larger and more promising cave digs in the Uinta Mountains, with potential for very large (but probably less well decorated) cave systems. We will probably be digging in both areas this summer, as soon as the snow melts.

caverdaveutah

[Alan777]

Hi Dave... Yes, I am sure that there are a lot more promising places than Mouse Hole. Actually, IF you were a member of the Timp Grotto of the N.S.S. years ago, then I may have met you there (late '80s - early '90s)... Back then I went to Nutty Putty several times and up to Spanish Moss Cave a few times... It has been years since I have met any of the old crew, but I met Ralph Powers - another member - a couple years ago just before he moved back east...

Unless someone can figure out how to suck the dirt from Mouse Hole with a generator and some kind of funnel or hose, I agree that it would take more work than most would want to commit to.

Just a question, is the NSS affiliated with this caving org?:

http://www.caveutah.com/

Or are they independent?

Also, if anyone has heard stories of 'lost caves' (caves that have been discovered but they were not able to find them again), then these may be potential areas for investigation...

Take care;
Bruce Walton

[caverdaveutah]

CaveUtah.com

Bruce,

I recognize your name from way back, but I don't believe I ever met you. If so, I didn't catch your name.

As far as CaveUtah.com, I don't know who runs that site, or who they are technically affiliated with. The site has links to various grottos and NSS sites, but I don't think are directly affiliated or sponsored by either the NSS or the local grottos directly. Probably some local grotto (or ex-grotto?) cavers who disagree with the official grotto websites and doings, and chose to create their own website instead. I probably know the people in question, but their site doesn't list any contacts, and I haven't worried about it enough to ask or find out for myself.

caverdaveutah

[caverdaveutah]

Timp Grotto

Yes, I've been a member of the Timpanogos Grotto, on and off, for years. I met some of them in 1984, then officially joined the grotto in about 1986. I was very active in the grotto for years, with positions including chairman and newsletter editor, before moving away from Utah. I'm back in Utah now, after several years away, but I'm not on the Wasatch Front, so it's hard to get to the meetings on any kind of regular basis.


caverdaveutah

[Alan777]

Hi Dave;

It has been many years. I miss those old caving days... I'd like to get hooked up with the MU group but missed the last event up the canyon, so if you hear of anything new (a get-together) please let me know.

Like I said, I've been down Spanish Moss cave and it was awesome. Does the NSS (Timp Grotto) control the keys to that cave? I always wanted to go into Red Baron because (from what I heard) it may be a lot more decorated than Spanish Moss.

I suppose you remember Ralph Powers? I keep in contact with him through the UtCavers e-group. Do you know about that? It's a yahoo group that you can get to here:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/utcavers/

Anyway, I've been a 'loner' most of my life so I need to get out and get some interaction going... but I can only go to places I can get to via the bus, because in '01 I was in a bike/auto accident, and they say I should not drive because of some of the effects of the accident (concentration, etc)... but the bus is ok with me since I don't have to worry about car payments, insurance, inspection, gas, oil, repairs, tires, and all that fun stuff... ;o)

I'd really like to get involved, so any help you could provide would be great...

So, whereabouts do you live (away from the Wasatch Front)... SE Utah ?

Anyway, thanks and take care...

Bruce

[caverdaveutah]

Caves and Stuff

Yes, I am aware of the Utah Cavers mailing list. Its a great place for people who are interested in Utah caves and cavers.

Yes, the Timpanogos Grotto manages the key to Spanish Moss Cave. They also manage the key to Red Baron Cave. Red Baron certainly has some pretty and interesting cave formations, but I wouldn't say it was more decorated than Spanish Moss. Red Baron has a little more variety in its formations, and some more colorful formations, but nowhere near the sheer number of formations that Spanish Moss Cave has. Spanish Moss generally has larger, whiter, and more abundant and delicate cave formations. Personally, I like Spanish Moss better, but I haven't been in either cave for probably 15 years. Both caves are delicate, and both were gated to protect the caves from over-visitation and abuse.

I currently live in the Uinta Basin, and consequently do most of my caving in the Uintas.


caverdaveutah